Liz and Tatiana Talk Raw Milk & Real Food [Video, Transcript]

Tatiana Moroz asked Liz to be on her podcast to talk about all things real food, the Michael Schmidt/Montana Jones sheep fiasco and a little bit of Bitcoin.

So much good information here: on raw milk, what is a good healthy fat, why we should be eating lard, why it’s critical that we know our local farmers, why some people can’t tolerate dairy, how raw milk, real food and cryptocurrency are connected, and how using them will set us free!

The Transcript

Tatiana: Hey, everybody. Welcome to The Tatiana Show San Diego Edition. I’m here in beautiful San Diego for Inside Bitcoins. Today is the first real day, yesterday were some tutorials. So I’m here with Lisa Cheng of Vanbex and she’s actually giving a talk right now. I think it’s about gaming or something rather. But anyway, this conference looks really good. There’s a lot of interesting people here giving talks and panels and stuff. It’s nice to catch up with old friends.

Last week we didn’t have the show because I was in Mexico City. Mexico City was fantastic. I love the Latin American Bitcoin Conference. It’s one of my absolute favorites of all time and this was the 3rd annual one. Last year they did it in Brazil, but I was in New Zealand with my Brave New Coin friends. But anyway, yeah, so Mexico City this was really great, we went and saw some Nacho Libre, where you have the Alucho Libre where you have the big fighting with the outfits. And there was a lot of dancing and in general it was really great.

But I’m glad to be joined today with Josh Scigala from Vaultoro as usual. Hi, Josh. Nice to see you.

Josh: Hello, Tatiana. You look more beautiful than ever.

Tatiana: You are a good little charmer. Thank you. You look lovely as well. And I’m very happy to bring in my beautiful friend Liz Reitzig who is … who I consider I guess my food guru. She knows everything about health. And some people are going to do their New Year’s resolutions in January. But I think that we could take some tips from Liz for now and I think what she does is really integrates realistically healthy eating into your day to day life. Thank you, Liz for joining us.

Liz: Thank for having me on, Tatiana.

Tatiana: So for my friends who don’t know about you, Josh, really quick you can introduce yourself and then we’ll have Liz give a little bit more of an intro cause people probably already know you, Josh, you’re on here with me before.

Josh: Yeah, I run a Bitcoin exchange, bitcoin and gold. So no one needs to trade into filthy fiat anymore.

Tatiana: Filthy fiat, very filthy.

Josh: We can stay in a truly private and an asset that isn’t lent into existence of proper true asset. Not this crazy strange paper that we’re all trying to get out of our lives. So it’s a fun. Yeah, but I think Liz’s … what Liz is doing is amazing. I think, yeah, introduce yourself.

Liz: Well, first of all kudos to both of you for all your work in Bitcoin and bringing it into the mainstream. I’ve been working on food, and food security, and food access issues for 10 years making real, healthy, clean foods available to people and direct farmer to consumer access and setting the nutrition angle on that the whole time as well.

Tatiana: Okay, Liz. So let’s talk raw milk. That’s my favorite topic.

Liz: Alright.

Tatiana: Because … well, I’ll tell Josh and the viewers about a little random stray. So where was I coming back from? I was coming back from some place and I stop by her house, and Liz took me around. We went to her little gardens that she had and she was just picking all these fruits and vegetables. And I was really surprised at what a variety of things that she had there, just seemed to be a huge abundance of … I don’t know, that garden just had a lot of stuff in there and you have five children so you’re cooking for a lot of people.

And it wasn’t a very large garden at all. And then we ended up going back to Liz’s and she made me these eggs with raw goat cheese and all these freshly chopped vegetables from the garden, and she put so much butter on the pan and I was thinking, “How is this woman who’s had five children she is really slim, she looks great?” And she’s eating these gigantic things of buttery egg goodness. And so it got us kind of talking and it got me inspired to join a food co-op so I could get raw milk and some other raw dairy products.

So why don’t you tell me a little bit about this way that you’re eating just real actual food? It’s very mystical.

Liz: Well, I love that you’re talking about the butter because that’s such a kitchen passion of mine. And I tell people sometimes I’ll make something and bring it to a potluck or bring it to a dinner and they’ll say, “Well, how did you make this?” And I say, “First, I start with a pound of butter.” And they just start to look at me like, “What?” We eat a lot of butter. It’s so delicious and it’s so good for you and especially the raw. And if you have access to raw butter from grass fed cows, that’s even better than gold or Bitcoin.

Josh: I remember I was a real vegan for four years and then I dealt sometimes into animal products as well here and there. And I was talking to a really old cow dairy farmer and he was like, “No, I don’t touch milk at all anymore. I don’t touch it.” He was a really Australian guy, “I don’t touch it.” I said, “What? Why?” He goes, “Ever since this Louis Pasteur came along and pasteurized everything, everything is full of pus and it’s disgusting.”

And they could just pump these cows full of anything because they can pasteurize it, it looks all nice. But under the hood it’s awful. And I said, “Really?”


“And what about raw milk?”

“Yeah, I love it. Love it. But only from cows that have been treated well and being grass fed and all the rest of it.”

And it was real, seeing this old timer talking about how it used to be and how he refuses to consume modern farming method products.

Liz: Yeah, and that’s a really good point and something that it’s important to make a distinction about because there’s two different types of raw milk. There’s raw milk that’s intended for pasteurization and then there’s the raw milk that’s intended for human consumption. And the production models of each are completely different. I do not recommend raw milk from an industrial dairy, bulk tank.

When you get raw milk you want to make sure you’re getting it from clean, healthy cows that are gracing on green grass or eating hay in the winter. That’s the kind of raw milk that are civilizations have been built on and that’s the kind that small farms are producing today. That’s what you want to look for.

Josh: Yeah, it’s amazing when you see the amount of blood and pus and crap, cause I have seen some videos of it that it’s just all boiled out and that’s quite revolting when you think of about what’s in a normal milk.

Tatiana: Okay, moving on from that really lovely description. So one of the things that I noticed when Liz told me about raw milk was how unbelievably difficult it was to get. And there’s a website, what was it called?, Liz?

Liz: Yes.

Tatiana: And basically has, you have your state, you pick out the farms that deliver to you and they usually pick a city around you. And I have to say it hasn’t been the greatest experience because sometimes the farmers are late, you have to go with that specific day, it’s usually about … for me it’s 30 minutes from my house and I have to leave my house, drive 30 minutes and go get milk that may not even be there. It’s kind of annoying.

That being said, I feel like when I go and I get the extra raw milk and I’m traveling right now, so I’m not really eating healthy, but when I’m home, when I actually put the effort in and I get that extra raw milk I feel like I’m eating a lot healthier because then I’m just being more mindful in general of all the different foods that I’m keeping in the house, so I won’t go to Whole Foods. But even now after hanging out with Liz, like Whole Food sucks. I just want some really, really good farm stuff.

What about people who have lactose intolerance? How does that work? What’s the split?

Liz: Right, lactose intolerance is actually something that the dairy industry invented with the pasteurization process. Because when you have raw dairy, whether it’s milk, cream, or butter you have the lactase enzyme intact and that’s what helps our bodies with the digestion and absorption of the milk sugar, lactose.

But when you heat something, when you heat milk, it destroys the enzyme. So then your body is left trying to cope with this milk sugar on its own and most of our adult bodies are not equipped to digest lactose. That’s why you have this lactose intolerance. But what it really is, is an intolerance to the kind of milk that Josh was describing, the pasteurized pus from these industrial farms.

Josh: Yeah, that’s really interesting. Because I was on the plane over to Canada and next to me was this guy and I was chatting away and he was like saying, “Yeah, I’m lactose intolerant but weirdly only in America.” When I go back to Sweden, I don’t have to take this tablet. I don’t get fully bloated and gassy and all the rest of the stuff that comes with lactose intolerance. But when he goes to the States, he gets it. So I thought, “Huh? That’s kind of strange.” But now that you say that it all make sense.

Liz: Yeah, and in Europe the laws around raw milk are a lot better. So it’s widely available throughout Europe. I’m not sure specifically how it is in Sweden. But overall the attitudes are completely different in Europe and even in England, the royal family drinks raw milk, yet it’s illegal here in many places and completely illegal in Canada.

Josh: Yeah, in Australia you have to go to the pet food shop and it’s called milk for dogs and it’s just got pictures of a friendly person feeding it to his dog. But everyone just goes there for the milk and that’s the loop hole that they found to get around the ridiculous regulations if someone wants to drink something absolutely natural and normal without all these non-sense behind it. But again, this is what’s called regulation hacking and they’re getting around some of the nonsense that is forced onto us by people who think they know how to run our lives better than we do.

Liz: Right, exactly. And that’s what Tatiana was speaking to. And Tatiana, when you’re talking about the difficulty of the direct engagement, when you think about farmers and what area of expertise they’ve developed, they’ve spent their lives learning how to build healthy soils and taking care animals. And so they’re not necessarily the best at logistics or marketing or coordinating.

So a lot of them, they try to get their product to the consumer directly, but you are going to have some of these things that require a little more effort, like some late deliveries or you have to put your order in a week ahead of time. But it is as you mentioned, Josh, it’s how to work around these regulations that are so restrictive to getting us good, clean, healthy food that keeps our bodies healthy.

Tatiana: I have a question. So if you take raw butter and you freeze it does that kill the live properties because it’s frozen? I mean, isn’t the benefit of raw butter that it’s alive? And how is it different from cultured butter?

Liz: Okay, so freezing does not significantly impact anything. There’s a few people the fringes who say they don’t want to eat anything that’s ever been frozen and they’re going to have to go to even more extreme effort to make sure that they don’t. The difference between regular butter and cultured butter is with regular butter you take the milk, you let the cream rise, you separate the cream, you whip that cream into butter.

With cultured butter you take the cream and you add a culture or you just let it naturally culture and that’s where you’re letting the bacteria that occur in it naturally, probiotic bacteria. You let them do their job and they digest a little bit of the proteins and the sugars that are still present in the cream, in the fat. And then you take that cream that’s been cultured and you turn it into butter.

Tatiana: Is that significantly healthier in any way? It just sounds kind of gross?

Liz: It’s actually really good. Some people prefer it. It’s a little bit healthier because you’re getting rid of those last little bits of milk sugar and you’re adding probiotics to it. So it’s already a friendly probiotic food. But when you culture it you’re making it a little bit more.

Tatiana: But doesn’t it taste like sour? Like sour butter? It sounds kind of, I mean, what does it taste like? Does it taste any different?

Liz: It taste a little bit different. It might have a little bit of a sour creamy taste to it.

Tatiana: So how long does this butter last in the fridge any way? Any butter for that matter.

Liz: Butter, as long as it’s been rinsed. So when during the process of making butter you get buttermilk as a side product. And some farms don’t necessarily rinse the buttermilk off and so that butter does not last very long. But when they do a really good job thoroughly rinsing the butter it can last months.

Josh: Even outside the fridge?

Liz: Well, I wouldn’t put it outside of the fridge of months. I do that maybe for a few days. Put it back in the fridge. Take it back out to get it soft again.

Tatiana: They’re sealed in water. Remember, like sometimes they have the containers where they put the butter in the water and I’m looking at it? But I think that the water seems to preserve it.

Liz: Well, if the water is kept at a cooler temperature. I mean, the idea being that you want to keep it cool but still a little bit warm enough that it’s spreadable. And butter is a stable fat cause it’s highly saturated. So you’re saturated are more stable. That means they’re going to hold up to heat better without becoming rancid and butter’s one of them. So it’s pretty stable at room temperature. You could give it a few days at room temperature. In the fridge you got several weeks, a couple of months. In a freezer it will last quite awhile.

Tatiana: Why do people think that butter and milk make them fat and maybe they don’t?

Liz: Well, thanks to the CDC and the USDA dietary guidelines. We have all these misinformation and all these propaganda around butter and animal fats and saturated fats being bat for you. And it’s all just propaganda. I mean, when you think about the beginning of it, it started with the advent of industrialized vegetable oils. So going back more than a hundred years, you’ve got Proctor and Gamble and they were making candles that we made to light our homes, right? Cause we didn’t have the electricity.

And when the light bulb was invented the candles weren’t so popular anymore. But during the times that their candles had been popular they got together with the people who were manufacturing cotton. And the cotton manufacturers had all this waste material of the cotton seeds. They weren’t going to use that in clothing. And so Proctor and Gamble paid them and paid the chemist to come up with something for candles from the cotton seed oil. So what they came up with was crystallized cotton seed oil, Crisco, and they use that in candles.

But with the not needing candles anymore, with the advent of the light bulb they took that same product, this waste material from cotton and they put it in fancy packaging and said, “This is a health food.” And they started marketing it to the Jewish housewives. They said, “It looks like lard, it acts like lard, you can use it like lard.” So people started switching to Crisco and that’s when the propaganda started, that was the rise of fake food.

So here we have this incredible, good, healthy food of butter and actual real good lard and it was being replaced in people’s cooking with this waste product from cotton manufacturing that had no relevance to human health at all. And now we know of course that’s trans fats and it’s terrible for us. But it’s taken this whole evolution, but for years people were told, “Eat Crisco. Eat margarine instead of butter. It’s better for you.” But it’s just all false.

Tatiana: Wow. That sounds really disgusting. What about the yogurt based butters? Are those bad for you? Like the Brummel & Brown one?

Liz: Well, as far as I’m concerned butter is just as a good of food as it can get and I don’t know why you would try to replace it with anything. I’m not familiar with yogurt based butters. I can tell you that yogurt from raw milk, from grass fed cows is also great for you. It’s going to help you with to readjust your internal ecosystem and your digestive bacteria. It’s really good for you. I don’t know anything about butter made from yogurt.

Josh: What would say for like people with … who have got pointers of higher cholesterol that they’ve been told ever since the 80’s stick to margarine, stick to Canola oils, stick to all these ridiculous oil because your cholesterol. How do you … what’s your advice for them?

Liz: Well, initially read a book called the Cholesterol Myths. There’s a lot about this alarmism around cholesterol that’s all false.

Josh: Yeah, because stats of soy oil like wonderful, aren’t they? I mean, it’s ridiculous.

Liz: Well, it is ridiculous. But when you look at the actual stats of high cholesterol and death rates or mortality related to that, when you lower cholesterol you lower, slightly lower the mortality rates due to heart disease but you increase the mortality due to things like cancer and brittle bones. So it’s a trade off. I mean, everybody is going to die of something, right? And would you want to die happy and eating the good food that you love or you want to die on chemo from cancer because you stopped eating any good food and stopped enjoying life, right?

It’s kind of a choice. And there’s a lot of evidence also showing that when you eat good, healthy, animal fats and I’m talking about fats from animals that are outside, on pasture, getting sunshine themselves, then that helps with your health across the board.

Josh: Yeah, and I think that’s a really good point because of the reason why I was vegan for so long was because the whole animal industrial complex is so despicable and so disgusting now that I just didn’t want to be a part of it. I knew that there are some health benefits to it and I actually felt just a lot better eating no animal products. I mean, I duck in and out, here and there, I was not … never militant about it like a lot of people are.

But I think … I was always … if it’s a wild dear that’s being served up to me or a wild swine or something like that, then of course I’ll eat it, and also the loves that’s been into it and all the rest of it by the chef. But I think, yeah, I think the health benefits of eating … being part of this despicable animal situation that we’ve got going on in the food chain really is unhealthy.

Liz: Right.

Josh: I don’t the real word about it no matter what you do and like you pointed it out before if you get raw milk from a cow that’s been totally abused its whole life and chained up on these machines sucking milk out all day long, it’s just not going to be healthy at all.

Liz: Right, exactly. And I was vegetarian for five years for the same reasons that you just stated. I did not want to participate in this food industrial complex where animals were mistreated so I could have a stake. And I knew there had to be a better way and there is, it’s going straight to the farm, it’s going to the decentralized food system. And my involvement in Bitcoin is the same reasons and there’s so many parallels between Bitcoin and the real food, the real food movement, the real food system where you have something that’s inherently, it’s designed to be corrupt and to devalue human life and take away quality of life from humans and animals.

And when you can go like with Bitcoin, you’re going and you’re decentralizing money, same thing with a real food movement. When you go direct to small farms or when you produce your own food you’re decentralizing that and you’re going to where you’re actually adding value.

Josh: Yeah, I think that’s a real good opportunity for disruption is kind of an Uber style, something to help farmers distribute properly without this whole centralized mess of that you get, even with Whole Foods. And Whole Foods is amazing, it’s really good. But at the same time it’s just the same old as the world, but it’s a better option.

Tatiana: To give you a little context of how farm my milk travels, right? Cause when I came back to … I live 20 minutes outside Manhattan, so it should be really easy for me to get it. Number one I’m paying about $8 a gallon for milk and I’m paying a $5 fee to have the food ported over anywhere from 5 to 10, 15 maybe even for delivery fee. I’m paying $50 for the transportation.

Now when the guy is bringing the milk, he’s coming once a week. He’s coming from Pennsylvania an hour and a half away and he’s dropping it off at several different places. And the thing is that like when you were talking about the Uber for milk, I got all excited. I said, “Yeah, then I could just get it whenever I want.” But then I thought about the actual logistics because you’re not allowed to buy raw milk in New Jersey cause it might hurt us. I’m very afraid. But no, you have to bring it from Pennsylvania and it takes a really long time.

Josh: And they won’t let it fly with Bitcoin either because otherwise you need a license.

Tatiana: Yeah, exactly. You’ll probably need a license for Bitcoin. But either way I think that it takes a lot of effort to bring it over. So there’s a reason why it cost so much. But I do like going direct to the farm. I may get milk or any kind of dairy product at … like if I got the top shelf stuff at Whole Foods it would just be a few dollars less and I would way rather give it to the farm cause I know where it’s coming from.

Liz: Yes, and when you’re looking at pricing, it’s really important to look at what you’re getting for that price too. Because when you go to a place like Whole Foods or even any organic chain, unless they’re stocking something direct from the farm they’re still getting it through a middle man, a processor, one of the co-ops. So what happens there is the farmer is not getting value for their product. They’re getting way less than they even need for breaking even.

So what we get is dairy farms collapsing everywhere and more centralization of the dairy farms. But when you go direct it is going to be more expensive partly because you are paying a price that keeps that farm in production which has so many benefits. It has benefits to the community, it has benefits to the environment, has benefits to local rural economies which then in turn have benefits to broader communities.

Tatiana: And this kind of goes back to me being inspired by getting my raw milk, like I’m more likely to work out that week or maybe not drink that 3rd glass of wine, whatever. It kind of just puts you in a little bit of a different mindset. And I think it’s very complementary to the goals of being a liberty activist or working in Bitcoin. I mean, part of those endeavors for me is that pursue of something better and I think that you can extend it and be kind to yourself. Because a lot of people drive themselves into the ground, they’re just working too hard, and they’re not taking good care of themselves. But if you’re not going to take good care of yourself then you’re not going to be any good at … like it’s going to detract from your ability to produce properly as like a person.

Liz: Right.

Josh: Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. Sorry, Liz. I just also wanted to make this similar point is that all of us Bitcoiners and computer nerds and these sort of people that are attracted to Bitcoin in the technical side end up sitting for long periods, drinking coffee to no end and really living not a very healthy lifestyle. And that’s why I think having someone like yourself in the industry reminding people, “Look, get up. Do some exercise. And also here’s some good foods and good ways to look up. Here’s some myth by the way, and here’s how the myth started.”

And I heard these myths all the time. I mean, remember, jeez, five years, ten years ago, people were just obsessed with how the coconut oil is terrible for you and I was like, “No. It’s not. It’s really good.” “No. It’s saturated fat.” And they’re obsessed with this notion. But again it was a myth which is now been totally toppled because now people understand the benefits of coconut oil and how amazing it is or raw butter or those sorts of things. It’s great to see someone out there really pushing the myth, like well … myth busting I guess.

Liz: Right, and really good point on all of it. And I think that the real food movement and the Bitcoin and what’s going on in the Bitcoin space, they really compliment each other. Like sort of both working on as I said before it’s adding value to people’s lives and creating a higher quality of life for people and that does include sometimes reminding some of the computer guys to take a break and eat a healthy meal. But also it’s like imagine what it would look like and this is happening when co-ops and farmers and farmers market all start accepting Bitcoin or when we have something that’s similar to your project but where it’s actually backed by food or by a share in a farm. I mean, then we all get to be co-creators in creating the value of a system.

Tatiana: Can you talk a little bit more about what you’re experience has been in trying to utilize Bitcoin in the blog chain to improve that world so to speak? And what do you see a little bit more? Just give me more about that.

Liz: Yeah, so I initially worked on a project called farmer credits and that the goal with farmer credits was specifically to use digital currencies to connect people to food sources and in a way that was environmentally restorative, not just sustainable anymore. We need to look at restoration of our ecosystems. And there’s a lot of good ideas that sprang from that and I see a future in that and especially in relating it to local complimentary currencies for specific communities.

Josh: I remember Adam B. Levine doing an interview with someone from the farmer credits stuff years ago.

Liz: Right, yeah.

Josh: The very early show. Yeah, that sounded amazing.

Liz: It’s a really great concept and I think there’s a lot there to work with and to create from.

Tatiana: So Liz, if somebody wanted to pay for food with Bitcoin at the farmer, why does that farmer care? I mean, dollars would be easier for him in some ways, using a credit card, they’re already familiar. What would be the benefit of incorporating crypto-currency other than it just being, “Look, you can pay with this money.”

Liz: Well, I mean, with any early adapters they’re going to understand the benefit of supporting a currency like Bitcoin or whatever currency they want to use in the digital space there. So I think the value is there for the farmer to understand it. Outside of that, the farmers … a lot of farmers are farmers because they love being outside and digging in the dirt or having the slowness of working with the animals and they’re not quite up to speed yet on this new digital currency.

So they’re not going to necessarily understand the value of it yet. As it grows, as it becomes more popular and as people look for … as people within that space who use digital currencies look for farmers to support I think we are going to see a broader adoption of it from the farms.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, ever notice that the first sort of thing for sale was alpaca socks coming from an alpaca farm up in … somewhere in … I forgot where it was. Tatiana, do you remember where it was?

Tatiana: No, but I remember thinking, “Why the hell do I want alpaca socks?” And then I touched alpaca socks many years … Okay, it wasn’t actually their socks, it was an alpaca. It was in Texas. A few years later and I remember touching the alpaca and thinking, “I was wrong. What was I thinking. Of course I want socks made out of this animal.” It was so soft and wonderful and I was thinking I was fool for missing my chance early on, but there is still time. It is the holidays.

Liz: Yeah, and Tatiana, you touched on another point too which is whether it’s a steak or a gallon of milk or alpaca socks, whenever we are going direct and supporting a farmer in whatever it is they’re producing, alpaca socks or wool pillows or milk or steaks, whatever it is, we’re actually supporting that farm staying in production and we’re paying for the value that that offers and a higher quality of life for all involved.

Josh: Yeah, and this is a really good point that I think shout out to the farmers, because we as consumers try to do our best and go pay above market price which is a very hard thing to get the common person to do and to support things that are quite kind of separate, kind of further away from your own lifestyle and that’s to help build a system that you pay a bit more for milk because you know that if we all do that then eventually it will come down in price and people will live better and all the rest of it.

But please return the favor which is think of the bigger picture as well and take that day or two. Take that … get people around to help you understand Bitcoin and join that evolution in money as well. Because that’s all part of the same thing and learn about these, well, I don’t say revolutions because they’re not violent. They’re true evolutions and they’re beautiful. So jump on board.

Liz: Indeed.

Tatiana: Do you guys think that we’re being spoiled little princesses though, like we want all of our food to be pure? I mean, I don’t know if this is … like I don’t know, how I will know the credit card debt. That’s how I afford raw milk, right? But I don’t think that’s affordable for a lot of people. Like what can people do that are on a budget in order to continue to healthy? Like where do you think that they should spend? Say they could pick out five ingredients for their kitchen that are the most important components of a good healthy diet, what do you think, Liz?

Liz: Well, I want to address cost for a second here. Because if you have a budget for soda, whatever you’re spending per month on soda take all of that and move into raw milk or something else that’s actually beneficial and then you’ll find that you’ve got plenty of money, most people. There are some people out there saying, “Well, I don’t spend any money on soda.” Good for you. Whatever that particular vice might be though that you know is not benefiting your health, it’s not benefiting anyone, maybe move some of that budget into something that is sustainably produced, does add value to your local economy, and adds value to your own body through health.

So this affordability myth is another one of those myths. Because there’s things that we all do that we know that are not good for us that we can put into something that’s healthy and beneficial in all those ways.

Tatiana: Do food stamps work at farmer’s markets? I kind of thing that they do, right?

Liz: Many farmer’s markets accept food stamps.

Tatiana: Oh, good. Well, that would be an option. I mean, I don’t know finding a farmer’s market can be a little tricky, but we have the internet now. So that’s not even an excuse. What I noticed when after I came and visited you was that even though I was on a really tight budget, I’m cooking for one so I would just buy one or two main components of the kitchen that week, like I get really good salt and I’d get a really good olive oil. And then that would be it for a week and a half and then next time I would get a thing of really good butter. Yeah, it was practically more dollars for a thing of butter, but it last me for two months and every time I use that I think, “Oh, so good to myself.”

And actually it makes me better to myself. It makes me more, I don’t know. I think that when I travel I’m a hot mess and then when I’m at home and I can control my little food sources even though I might think, “Oh, I shouldn’t put on this much butter.” But I’m like, “Oh, but it’s real butter and it’s okay to have something real and nice.” And then maybe I don’t want to get like a nasty candy bars, I think of all the gross things that are … I’m not into candy bars so much anymore because I know that they’re made out of fake stuff. I’d rather have a real thing.

Josh: Yeah, and the other thing people can do is support projects, there’s a website I don’t know if it’s still around actually, it’s been doing for awhile. But where you go and harvest your own spring water that’s … it’s free, you just go and rock up with your bottles and fill up on beautiful water that’s been flowing through minerals and down mountains and stuff. And most of the time if other people are drinking it, you know it’s okay and especially if it’s running it’s fine.

But there’s all sorts of things people can do and I really back you up on this unaffordable myth that even the organic … a lot of the organic stores that have boxes where the food is a little bit older and everything’s half priced on that, or you can go to farmer’s markets at the end of the day if you can afford it and pick up the deals there. I mean, there’s lots of tricks to get into it. And if you’re raising the next generation raise them with good food because studies have shown that IQ and everything and being able to focus, if you haven’t got all these pop and nasty stuff in your system kids can focus and actually learn what’s put in front of them instead of being totally distracted and out of control.

Tatiana: You mean a diet of soda and Ritalin isn’t good for children. I don’t understand. Liz, it’s far and crazy talk you have over there.

Liz: You forgot the Skittles, Tatiana.

Tatiana: I do love some Skittles. I haven’t given those up. Go ahead. I still want the top five. But after … sorry.

Liz: What Josh just talked about is another example of the value you get from real, good, healthy foods where your children as they learn they’re going to have a better opportunity to learn when you’re fueling their bodies properly. I mean, it’s so common sense but it’s something people forego often. So the top five foods, right? So get vegetable oils out of your kitchen, except for olive oil and coconut oil.

Tatiana: What about safflower oil, sunflower? Those seem alright.

Liz: Well, they’re mediocre but they are still easily damaged, so they become rancid quickly, they’re not good with high heat. You want to replace those vegetable oils especially the industrially processed ones, soy, corn, canola, there’s also GMO oils. You want to replace those with good, healthy fats, animal fats if you can, butter, lard, coconut oil.

Josh: In Germany they’re not GMO.

Liz: Right, Europe has a completely different standards on GMOs than America does. And that’s great, you’re so lucky about that. Here you got to be careful on everything. So replace your vegetable oils and I highly recommend switching from conventional industrial dairy to raw or eliminating it. I think that eliminating dairy is better than drinking the processed stuff.

Taking processed sugar out of your diet. I know that’s painful for a lot of people. But eliminating white sugar, corn syrup, sugar from sugar beets which does not have to labeled as much, but it is also GMO. Sometimes something will just say sugar and it can be sugar from sugar beats. So just get out all processed sugars and replace it with honey, maple syrup, or coconut sugar.

Josh: And be careful with cheap honey because a lot of honey is not actually honey, it’s not just fake honey.

Liz: Right, know your source. Switch from … Now do you want like five really specific things, Tatiana? Or can it be sort of broader categories?

Tatiana: I’m going to give you free rein here. Whatever you think. It could be broader categories. I think you know what I was thinking was one would be water, right? Because that’s something that … I got a Berkey filter, a couple like I don’t know, eight months ago or whatever when my water from sinks are tasting like toilet. It was driving me insane. I was like, “I’m getting this overpriced thing.” But I use it for everything. And I started thinking it’s weird because you cook your pasta or you cook your vegetables with water from the sink and I don’t know, but then you worry that I guess sometimes they don’t have enough minerals. So what do you think about the water supply?

Liz: I get clean water too. That’s something that’s like background for me so it’s not always as forefront as some of the other things I discuss. But clean water is super important. If you’re getting your minerals through raw milk or bone broth, I’m not as concerned about adding minerals back into the water. But if you are concerned about that or you just like the flavor, you can get different kinds of minerals that are at the correct proportion for our bodies and you can add that back into the water a few drops a gallon and you’re good to go, but yeah, super important. I’m glad you brought that out. And filters or reverse osmosis.

Josh: Definitely, but chlorine, I come originally Australia and we have also fluoride and chlorine in the water and it’s really … when I smell it now it’s just like, “Whoa, I’m at a swimming pool.” Like it’s horrible. And I always thought chlorine had to be in water because of the pipes and everything. But here in Berlin there’s no chlorine at all and no fluoride and if there is some sort of bloom of bacteria somewhere or algae they’ll cut off that section of pipe and just flush some chlorine through it, get everyone in the neighborhood to turn on their taps to make sure it’s not consumed and then it’s done.

And it’s just amazing. And now I really notice the difference. The chlorine is that it destroys all your gut bacteria, folks. So if you’re destroying your gut bacteria, they say that your gut has as many nerve links and it’s part of your spinal cord or parts of your brain, is that it’s another brain and by constantly flushing chlorine through it you’re really destroying another part of your another brain really.

Tatiana: That was one of the main things that Liz told me about cause when I was young when my voice (hum?) she was like, “You need to get your gut bacteria and shake missy.” I was like, “What?” And she was saying that the gut is the origin of all disease. So Liz, why is that important? What does that mean? What bacteria? Sounds kind of gross.

Liz: Well, like Josh said I mean, that’s so important and Tatiana like it cannot be over emphasized and new research points to a relationship between our gut and our gut bacteria and how well we function, our brains function. And so there’s this whole body of evidence showing that children who have moderate to severe learning disabilities, what they have is an imbalance with the bacteria in their digestive systems.

So when you get that back in balance through eating the right foods and taking various probiotics you get restored function in your thinking, in your clarity. People go from being depressed to being happy again and learning is easier. Like it all shifts with that rebalancing of the microbiome in your digestive system.

Josh: A great way, Liz, and I think you can talk to this as well, Liz, is that it’s fermenting your own foods. Again if you’re worried about money, fermented foods is as easy as grabbing a cabbage, chopping it up, putting in a jar with a little bit of salt and something lazy, check it out in Youtube and making your own. And it’s so cheap and it’s so full of gut bacteria. I mean, you’ll probably be a bit gassy for the first week as your gut bacteria become neutral again, become better, but after that it settles and it’s all good again.

But again you don’t need to pay hundreds of dollars paying for all these probiotic pills when you can make yourself or drink raw milk and have yogurts and make these fermented foods. What do you think of fermented foods, Liz?

Liz: Love them and you’re so right on about how it adds the probiotics back into our systems, and really importantly all these food that we’re talking about taste great. And so it’s not like you need to sacrifice flavor or variety or anything for great health. You get it all. You get to eat your burger with your sauerkraut, it’s just a grass burger, and it’s home made sauerkraut and looking at it in terms of it’s really is this holistic approach to eating where you get to support farms, you get to support your own health and you get the flavor, the variety, the robustness of having these delicious meals.

Tatiana: How do you know that if you’re making a fermented food, cause okay so I thought, “Oh, maybe I could make my own Kombucha.” But how do I know that I’m not making some crazy monster bacteria that’s going to crawl out in the night and try to eat me? I mean, seriously I could mess it up. I could make myself sick. What if the bacteria that I’m growing is deadly?

Liz: Well, for Kombucha you start with a culture. And so you know like if that culture starts to get bad, you’re going to be able to tell immediately by the smell. It’s going to smell awful.

Tatiana: I mean, it’s an inherently stinky thing in the first place. It’s bacteria.

Liz: Well, yes and … I mean, it’s also yeasty, right? So you can smell the difference between a good Kombucha because it might smell. You’ll smell the sourness but it’s not going to be something that smells revolting that’s going to like make immediately make you want to pull away from it. But if it goes bad it will.

Josh: A few German knows it’s amazing, that is not … you sort of with growing up there’s thousands of years of heritage of understanding, of going oh, just our bodies going, “Ehh, no, that’s wrong.”

Liz: Right, yeah, and it goes back to trusting yourself. I mean, we’re taught in this culture from a very early age that we need to rely on experts and tools for everything. But you don’t, I mean, you can tell a temperature of something that you’re cooking, you can tell by feel. I mean, our bodies are at 98 degrees. So if it feels … if it’s really hot to the touch, it’s quite a bit above that, same thing with testing, like if you’re making Kombucha, if it smells fine, if you’re not revolted by it it’s good. I mean, you do know and I want to discourage this notion that we need to revert to experts to tools or testings for everything because we don’t.

Josh: And we have access to experts anyway, if you follow a good recipe on Youtube. I mean, these experts are all making videos and explanations and instructions on how to make these things. So if you follow it’s pretty hard to mess up.

Liz: Yeah.

Tatiana: By the way guys we need a magic word. We always have a magic word on this show for the listeners at LTV cause we broadcast on, but we have our LTV feed. So I think that our magic word or phrase should be gut bacteria. Are you guys approving this message?

Josh: One word.

Tatiana: It’s two words, G-U-T bacteria. Alright, okay, continuing on. So alright, we got to get our guts in shape, what else?

Liz: Well, do you want to go back to the five kitchen items?

Tatiana: Yeah, the five kitchen items. I feel like we keep getting derailed but we’re okay.

Liz: Right, so we talked about switching vegetable oils for nutritious nutrient dense animal fats and coconut oil. Getting rid of all processed sugars and replacing with honey and maple syrup, good honey as Josh pointed out. Water, the importance of water. Getting all processed dairy out and if you can switch into raw and what Josh touched on I would go with either that or adding in bone broth. So either start fermenting vegetables or start making your own stock.

Tatiana: What’s up with bone broth? It sounds again like a really kind of a creepy hard to make food. How do you make it?

Liz: It’s so easy. You take bones from like if you cook a whole chicken or even if you just, if you have access to chicken necks and backs or if you can get bags of beef bones at any farm that has beef, and you just put them all in a pot and you cover with that good, clean, fresh water and you cook it up overnight. You can add whatever vegetables you want or none at all, you can add celery, carrots, onions, garlic, parsley, or not.

And at the end of it, you cook it for 12 to 36 hours on a low simmer. At the end of it you’ll have this amazing bone broth where during the process of cooking it breaks down and it pulls the minerals out of the bones. And it imparts them into the broth. So all the minerals that our bodies need, and our bones need are there in the stock. And it’s also incredibly rich tasting.

So you’re going to get this nice meaty flavor that you can then use to flavor any other foods. And if the bones you’re using, if they have connective tissue, or joints in them at all you’re also going to get really nice gelatin which helps us with our joints, our hair, our skin, our nails, I mean, you can go on and on and on with the health benefits. But this bone broth is something that’s so good for your gut, it’s helps restore that balance of the bacteria, it’s so good for the minerals in your body, the balance there, and it’s flavor.

Tatiana: Is it tasty? Is it good?

Liz: It’s very tasty. And it’s versatile. You can use it for soups, you can reduce it and use it for sauces. It adds that Umami taste, that some people use MSG to create that taste. MSG is a neurotoxin, you want to get rid of that. But you can make bone broth and you can use it for all kinds of flavorings.

Josh: Okay, someone needs to re-brand that, I mean, bone broth, it sounds just…

Tatiana: Sounds really morbid.

Josh: It’s bone broth.

Liz: I get it. You can call stock, chicken stock, beef stock.

Josh: Yeah, there we go.

Tatiana: Well, we’ll think about … we’ll think of other uses for it and people can kind of, I’m sure you have like recipes and stuff on your website, Nourishing Liberty.

Liz: I do. I’m not sure if I have one for stock, but I can go ahead and get one.

Tatiana: I think you should make one.

Liz: I will.

Tatiana: Cause winter is coming, everybody wants to stay warm. One thing that we didn’t touch on was just how dangerous the world of real food is. And it’s actually a victim of the state often times. You had told me about the story a couple of weeks ago, maybe you want to tell our listeners a little bit about the darker side of the food industry, other than the fact that we’re being fed pus-y milk with blood in it. What other terrors await us?

Liz: Are you talking about the situation in Canada?

Tatiana: Yeah, I would like to know about the Canada situation.

Liz: Yeah, so some of our farmers who produce real food and raw milk are deliberately and aggressively targeted by the government. Here in the US we’ve had several instances of arm raids against farms and in Canada there is one farmer in particular who’s undergone 21 years of harassment and repeated charges. He’s now facing extensive criminal charges for his role in producing raw milk and in protecting other farmers who are producing GMO-free organic foods.

Josh: That sounds like a terrorist. That’s just a food terrorist. And it’s just non-sense, isn’t it.

Liz: It is non-sense except for the very real consequences it has on people’s lives and Michael Schmidt is the Canadian farmer, the farm is Glencolton farm and actually three years ago he and four others were charged with pretty significant charges because of a shepherdess they helped. This shepherdess was producing a heritage breed of sheep called Shropshire and she was accused of one of them having scrappie.

None of them tested for it but anyway the Canadian government put a kill order on all of them. And the day that the kill order was to be executed the sheep were gone from the farm and there is a group that called themselves the Farmer Peace Corps and they had said that they were taking the sheep into protective custody until a more humane solution could be found.

And Michael along with three others were charged with numerous counts including criminal conspiracy and they’ve all been going through the process and they’re in the process right now, each of them facing up to 10 years in prison if they are convicted. So it’s that kind of action.

Tatiana: That sounds crazy and like it’s not even happening because it’s just so ridiculous. What can people do in order to help with that situation?

Liz: Well, I think the most important thing people can do across the board is start supporting your local farms. Go to any of the resources,

Tatiana: What about particularly…

Liz: What about what?

Tatiana: What about these people specifically that are being targeted? I mean, they’re having their livelihood destroyed other than of course, sure you want to support to local farms and stuff. But what about those people? I mean, how can we help them?

Liz: Well, there’s crowd funding set up for their legal defense and there’s pretty important. And showing up when there’s actions, showing up when there’s a hearing, or a trial. Physical being there and showing support is always a good way as well. But for those who cannot be there, donating to their legal defense means a lot.

Josh: How can find out about where to show up and can you donate in Bitcoin?

Liz: I don’t think we have a Bitcoin donation set up yet but I’ll look into that.

Tatiana: That will be a good excuse to get it done too.

Liz: Yeah, there’s an Indiegogo campaign set up right now and it’s I can’t put the link in, but if you Google Indiegogo sheep case it comes out first. And it’s put on by the Canadian Constitution Foundation. I’ve also written about it several times on my blog. So if you look it up there you can find it and yeah, if you Google Michael Schmidt and Glencolton farms it comes up.

Tatiana: Do we just call our representatives cause I’m interested there in representing our views? I mean, do we say that, “Hey, can you maybe stop busting farmer and stuff cause that seems sort of useless?” I mean, what kind of pressure could we as citizen put on there? Is it that we need to join these larger groups? How do you know which groups are really doing the right thing? I think that sometimes people wrap themselves in the flag of food safety, but it’s really some sort of a different thing. How can you weed your way through it?

Liz: That is such a great question and something I’ve been tackling recently myself. I say go direct. As much as you can know your farmer, have a direct relationship, and participate in some of your own food production.

Josh: Is there a website that people can go to, to find the farmer? Cause I feel like if I was having to try to find a farm and I wouldn’t know where to go and then the idea would I’d get distracted in life and go on and shop normally because I’ve forgotten about the podcast. Is there a way that you can jump online now, find something and then continue on that action?

Liz: Absolutely, there’s all kinds of resources, there’s, 1000ecofarms, eatwild, they’re a much older site, so they’re a little bit, some sources might not be updated, but they’ve got a lot of sources on there. for all things related to raw milk. Localharvest of course, but again a much older site, we have some outdated materials.

Josh: And they list it on Nourishing Liberty? Can people find stuff, these sort of sources through you?

Liz: Farmmatch is. There’s some I don’t list just for my own reasons. But yeah, there’s good guides available and I can put together a more comprehensive guide as well.

Josh: Yeah, fantastic. I think it’s a really, really important thing and calling a representative is just a joke. It’s better to act on yourself and really act on it. Because making a silly phone call to some magical man who’s not going to do anything is ridiculous. I really back you up on that in supporting these people.

Tatiana: I’m really glad that we have the chance to all get together today, this is a really good show and I’d love to have you back on in the New Year, maybe we could come up with some sort of concrete something, some sort of way that we can continue our education about food because I think that it’s the building block of how we’re going to go through our days going forward. So I want to stay full and beautiful. So I’m thinking of an interview in the New Year. Thanks so much, Liz for coming on the show. Liz, where can people find out more about you. It’s What about your Twitter and your social media?

Liz: Twitter is @nourishliberty and Facebook is @LizReitzig.

Tatiana: Awesome. Okay, Josh. What’s going on with you? Anything, any news over there? Final words for our audience?

Josh: Yeah, it’s going crazy people. People are loving trading between on Vaultoro, it’s really exciting. We’re seeing more and more trading volumes, so it’s really, really cool and seeing a lot of trading volume out of developing countries which is fantastic cause that’s what it’s all there for. These banking, this un-bank, allowing these people to jump out of this ridiculous corrupt monetary system that we’ve got. So I’m super excited and we’re working hard here in Berlin and online. So it’s really cool.

Tatiana: Excellent. Okay, everybody I’m going to go off to Inside Bitcoin San Diego. Next week we’re going to have Lisa Cheng of Vanbex and then I think Jonathan Chester of Bitwage. So that will be really cool. We’ll be chatting with them for the holidays. If you guys want holiday music, I have a holiday album, you can buy it on iTunes or you can buy on my site for Tatiana Coin Dollars, Bitcoin, whatever. It’s called For the New Year and I have to say there’s a lot of really pretty song on there. So it’s always nice for the holidays.

Josh: It is a very cool album.

Tatiana: Have you heard it? Yeah, it’s nice. I even have a song in Polish singing Lulajze Jezuniu. It’s really pretty. And then what else? If you need for advertising and marketing for the Bitcoins based, thank you very much for hosting us as always. Shout out to my crew at LTV and listeners over there. We’ll see you guys next week, we’ve got some really got good shows coming up so we hope to see you next time. Bye. Thanks.

Liz: Thanks, Tatiana.

Josh: Peace.

Sally Oh, Vitality Pi

A native Kentuckian, Sally is married since '91 to Hal from Taxachusetts, mom to two 100% homeschooled sons, a functional medicine practitioner, essential oils guru, homesteader and Weston A. Price Foundation chapter leader. In her spare time, she blogs at :)

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